Who says podcasting can’t be fun? Today’s guest has mastered the concept of substantive fun by creating content you can learn from and enjoy! Joining Tracy Hazzard is Elzie Flenard, host of the Podcast Town Throwdown. In this episode, Elzie will share useful podcast tips on launching your podcast or improving the one you already have. He is doing the same by revamping his other show, the Enterprise Now podcast and injecting more fun while still maintaining its educational and informative value. He talks about how he got started on podcasting and shares his views on organically growing your brand and building authentic connections. Tune in and learn all about Elzie’s binge factor and what makes for a fun podcast.
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Maximize Your Show Fun While Creating More Useful Podcast Topics With Elzie Flenard Of Podcast Town Throwdown
I’ve got Podcast Town Throwdown. I’ve got the Mayor of Podcast Town on the show, Elzie Flenard. He is phenomenal. He has got two shows. He’s got Enterprise NOW!, which is the older show and he’s going to do a revamp. He’s got Podcast Town Throwdown. He interviews a lot of podcasters himself. You don’t want to pigeonhole Elzie. Don’t even try to describe him this way. He’ll point out that one. Change your perspective and it’ll lead you down another path, maybe without you even realizing it.
He’s a creative guy, an entrepreneur, a family man, and a business owner. No box fits. It doesn’t exist. He’s a man of original thoughts and all products of unique thinking. I found out he was an engineer first and it shocked me because he was all about mindset in the show. He’s all about strategic thinking and the way that things are. There wasn’t a little bit of geek-tech out in the middle there. For the most part, this was not an engineer talking, at least not one that I would have expected. That one floored me when I found that out. You are going to enjoy the Mayor of Podcast Town, Elzie Flenard.
Elzie, welcome to the show. I’m glad you’re here. Let’s have a binge factor throwdown. Let’s talk about Podcast Town Throwdown and Enterprise NOW! You’ve had a lot of episodes between the two shows. I love that there’s revamping and newness going on. That’s a lot of fun. We’re going to talk about that over the course of this episode. What got you in the podcast, to begin with?
Tracy, do you want the long version or do you want the shorter version of the story?
Whatever you think this audience wants to know.
I’ll tell you the medium version. My background is in engineering. I grew up in the whole tech world. When I was a little boy, I knew I wanted to do things, I wanted to have a family, and I wanted to run my own business. Long story short, I was running a side hustle for the better part of fifteen years and I was stuck. The revenue wasn’t going in the right direction. I wasn’t going to be able to quit this job that I hated. I knew I needed to do something. There was something missing.
What I came up with is I needed to learn more about business. I said, “If I email these people and ask them to pick their brain, there is zero chance that they’re going to respond to that email. If I’ll serve a podcast, a show where we’re talking about business and learning from them, they’re more likely to say yes to that.” That’s how I got into podcasting. I didn’t have a plan. I didn’t have a strategy. There was no target market. None of that stuff. It was simply I wanted to learn from business owners and that’s why I launched my show.
Curiosity is one of my favorite ways to start a show. How does it feel to have done many episodes of Enterprise NOW!? What do you think you learned the most from it?
One of the bigger things that I’ve learned is that no matter how much you think you know, there’s always something else to learn.
Isn’t that the best part?No matter how much you think you know, there’s always something else to learn. Click To Tweet
There’s always a different perspective. Even as an entrepreneur, if I were to look at myself from when I first started, I could go back to that same point and learn a dozen different lessons. That’s the thing, being open to learning and understanding that there are things that you don’t know. Even when you get to a certain level of success, always be learning, always be open to gleaning from people in their respective positions and places.
That’s such a great way to look at it. My favorite part about podcasting is I’m going to learn something from you today that I didn’t know yesterday and I’m going to turn that into something that I’m going to share with somebody else tomorrow. My favorite part about it is to find it, learn it, and pass it on. You have started a new show, Podcast Town Throwdown. What made you start the new show?
I was listening to your episode with Laura Meyer. Every show should have a different focus, a different target, and a different purpose. Throwdown is fun, engaging, but we drop nuggets at the same time. The goal with that is to get fellow podcasters on the line and share their knowledge and experience with other podcasters. There’s always something you can learn from everybody. People restate things that you might know but the way they said it hits a nerve or piques your interest. The point behind Throwdown is to connect with other podcasters and help each other grow through having fun and getting to know each other a little bit better. Also, sharing tips that we’ve learned over the years as we’ve grown our podcasts.
It’s serving your business because you’re starting a podcasting business.
The funny thing behind Podcast Town is it started as a branded group coaching program. I was sitting with my business coach one day and he and he looks at it because I told him, “I want to start this group coaching program.” He’s like, “Elzie, that’s a great idea. You should do that.” I go off and I do my homework and I come back to him with this logo, Podcast Town. He looks at it and pauses for a second and he says, “Elzie, that’s the brand.” We were branded under a different name before. I said, “I don’t know what you mean. I appreciate the compliment.” He’s like, “I don’t think you understand. Podcast Town is the brand. There are other brands and it’s fine but I don’t know what that means. Podcast Town is the brand.” Even though we’ve been around for over six years, we’ve more rebranded under Podcast Town because, number one, it made sense. Number two, I was following the advice of my brilliant business coach.
It is a great brand. It reflects the fun that you have on the show. You do have a lot of fun on the show. That is certainly a reason for everybody to go check it out. You have what I’m going to call a highly produced segmented show, meaning that you have Throwdown segments and things that come in. That takes time and energy and it’s not for everyone but you do it well. Why did you want to do a show that has that much work? It has a great output result but it was a lot of work. What made you decide to do that? Was it to highlight the services and the things that you do?
I spent so much time doing things that I did not enjoy, going to a job that I hated, and working with people. I didn’t hate the people but I wasn’t going to their family get-togethers after work either. In my business, if it’s not fun, I’m not doing it. I have fun producing the show. I produce it live. I have the soundboard here. I’m interviewing people. I’m having fun. I’m poking fun at them. They’re poking fun at me. Doing it that way transfers that energy because it feels like I’m having fun and it’s because I am having fun.
Part of it was that I wanted to be organic and I wanted the energy to come across. On an emotional level, when people have fun, they learn more. It does something in our brains when the fun is attached to learning. If you’re listening to the show and you’re like, “This guy is nutty. He’s goofy. What he brought up about reciprocal interviews is a good point. I should implement that into my podcast strategy.” It’s a cool mix of having fun as the goofy Mayor of Podcast Town and getting some solid tips and tricks in podcasting as well.
You’re the Mayor of Podcast Town, which is who you are. It’s in your great intro. It’s one of my favorite intros that I’ve heard in a long time. I listened to a lot of shows. You caught me on your intro, which would make me listen. Something that drives people through and into your show is when you have this fun and exciting intro that you have. You got to find out who this guy is who self-named himself The Mayor of Podcast Town. You got to find out who that is and get to know him. That’s why you all are going to want to check out Elzie’s show.
I want to jump into our five things because now is a good time and I want to get to some more strategic conversation later. We have the five things that we talked about here on The Binge Factor. Sometimes those seem like basics but they are the things that you probably would agree with me that your clients struggle with as do mine that these are the same things everybody has issues with. Every often, we get the question, “I wish I was doing that better.” How do you get great guests for your show? Let’s specifically talk about Podcast Town because that’s your newer one.
For me, a great guest is somebody who fits into the target, somebody who wants to have fun because that’s the whole point of this whole life thing. If it’s not fun, then what’s the point? Somebody who is a podcaster, for obvious reasons, and people who understand the growth mentality. Podcast Town Throwdown is about three things, growing as a podcaster and the skillset. When I first started podcasting, if you had a show and your voice was on a recording, you’re a podcaster. As more people get into the industry, you have to have some skill now, how to listen and how to interview. There’s a skillset behind it. The show is meant to hone in on those skills.
I still get people that ask me, “What do you mean by the craft of podcasting?” Hitting in on what that even means, somebody who understands growth. A lot of people in this space are using social selling and some people are using in-person networking. Understanding what growth means, focusing on what growth means for your show, specifically, and not having this grand idea that if you don’t have 1 billion downloads, your show is not successful. Lastly, creating revenue or value from your show. Those are our three pillars.
Also, the way they have good lessons to share as guests.
For me, a perfect guest is someone who understands those three pillars and is actively what I call killing it in those areas.
I love that you have criteria because so few do and they take anyone. I’m sure when you started Enterprise NOW!, for instance, you weren’t discerning and you’ve learned that over time that you wanted to be more discerning.
If you had a breath in your body, you didn’t even need a microphone. If you are willing to come to the show, you are welcome.
These are the things you refine as you get into your newer show and realize, “I can change things and change the way it works.” The second thing is increasing listeners. We all want more listeners even if we’re not as hyper-focused on the numbers. I try to get my clients not to be hyper-focused on the number. We all still want more listeners. What do you do in outreach and other things to help increase listeners?
Social is huge and will be the number one. Being intentional and authentic in your engagement on what types of posts you’re engaging on but not being cheesy. Make the engagement thoughtful and authentic. It’s a slow growth process but it’s deep. The connections that you do make, even though they might take a little longer, they tend to be higher value and not just in dollars but in what I call return on relationship, ROR. Those are relationships that, for me, when I see them at a local networking event, there’s an instant connection because we’ve engaged on social, we’ve messaged each other, and I didn’t ask them for anything.There’s always something you can learn from everybody. Click To Tweet
I’ll message you on LinkedIn and wish you a happy weekend, for example. Little things like that. I want to wish you a happy weekend. I don’t want anything. I’m not going to invite you to any event. I don’t want you to buy my stuff. I’m saying hi. Engaging on social meaningfully. The other big one is email. Your email list is your currency. Making sure that you’re constantly providing value over and beyond asking for something because people gravitate to people who are givers and people who want to add value. I’m big on the farmer mentality, planting those seeds, harvesting them, being a connector, and helping people to get what they want. In turn, that will get you what you want, which is more listeners.
Do you do weekly emails? Do you do them in a certain way in how you’re putting out your information?
I always tell my clients to do two different emails. A lot of my clients have a podcast that’s affiliated with their show. I’ll have them do an email specifically for that show when it releases and then have a related email that goes out to the larger email list. If it’s a weekly show, they’re going to get that update on the newest episode with a focused, catchy subject line and solid content in between. Also, some follow-up in that overarching email. Maybe they do it bi-weekly or maybe it’s monthly but at least once every time a new episode post.
Thank you for those tips, those are great. I agree with you, email is important and much overlooked by a lot of people. You were talking about social media and I want to want to hit on it again as we hit the engagement piece. I got some questions to follow up on there. The middle one that we talked about here is producing like a pro. You were talking about doing these things live. Your production value is on the fact that you do this live. Give us some insights as to how you produce it that way.
Quite an endorsement there.
When I first started, I had my external mixer, a headphone amp, I had all these different pieces of gear, and now it’s all in one piece. I can load all of my sounds into one pad and have a little showrunner that I color-coded, because I’m a bit anal that way, with what sounds, what colors go with segments. I find it fun and engaging because the guest gets to see me producing it live. They even come in and produce some of their pieces. It’s a cool way to engage even on a podcaster level to produce a show in a way that’s a little bit different.
It’s what gives your show such great energy. I’m going to hit your bingeability but, at the end of the day, that energy is one of the factors in there. It’s that live piece that is working for you. Good for you. Thank you for sharing. Encouraging engagement. You were talking about social media. What social media platforms are some of your favorites and where do you find that you get the most engagement?
Tracy, I’ve been over the place in past years. I’m trying to focus my attention and energy on one platform and then repurposing content for other platforms. LinkedIn has been huge for me because a lot of the people that I’m speaking to, that’s where they hang out. I’m on Instagram but it hasn’t been huge for me. I know a lot of people are finding some success on Instagram. For me, the overarching concept is finding what works for you and doing more of it. Facebook has been great for me for brand awareness and engagement. If we’re doing a ribbon-cutting for the new studio or if we’re bringing on a new person or something like that, Facebook tends to be better for me for that. People tend to not become clients necessarily but it gives me brand love, which is people that are talking about it, liking, commenting, and sharing. In turn, clients see that and then they reach out.
What are you doing specifically that you would call an engagement piece on LinkedIn? Are you engaging via chat? Are you engaging right through your posts?
Directly on the post. This goes back to the authenticity piece. These are posts that I’m interested in. Maybe it has nothing to do with podcasting at all. Maybe it’s somebody that posts something that inspires me or something that causes me to remember something or it was a solid piece of marketing advice. It’s being authentically engaged. What I found happens is other people see that and they engage with you. They then look at your profile and they see what you do and why you do it. They message you or they call you.
Here’s a short story. In the studio here, there’s a door and people were walking by and they had high-heeled shoes. I don’t have to tell you that’s an issue because the sound was getting into the recording. I go to the lab manager here and I say, “Can I get an area road for this because the high heels are getting into the recording?” He says, “I don’t think the corporate will let us do that. What you can do is you can put a runner out and then pick it up every time when you’re done recording.” I hop on Amazon and I’m looking up runners and a red one pops up. The marketer in me says, “I want to buy this red carpet to roll out the red carpet for customers.” I buy the red carpet and I put it down and it worked great. I take a picture of it. It was a four-second clip of me showing the carpet up at our sign. I posted it on LinkedIn and I got three calls from people who wanted to come in and use the studio.
It was working.
I wasn’t planning to get a client from it. It organically happened. That’s what I mean by being authentic and allowing it to be organic. As much as I would like to say, “Brilliant idea.” It was completely random.
You’re going to have to go and have one printed. You can have those carpets printed. You’re going to have to have a red one printed with your Podcast Town logo on it so that when people do come in the studio or walk by the hallway, they’re now like, “This is where Podcast Town is.” That’s your next upgrade. It’s a great suggestion about how to get people to engage is you’re sharing something useful and something that hits home. It’s like, “I needed that. That’s why I’m contacting you.” Our last thing on our list of five things is to talk about monetizing your show. In your case, monetizing is more clients and all that, but you’ve got many guests who are killing it with business building. What have you seen that’s working in podcasting that you’re seeing that it’s doing a business building monetization view?
For me, it goes back to businesses relationships. They’re all saying, “It’s not what you know. It’s who you know.” That’s the saying because it’s true. When you build solid relationships even though the person that you’re interviewing might not come on as a client but if you do your part as a great host, they’ll remember you, when they run across somebody who’s looking to launch a show or grow their show, they’re going to think about you. When they think of somebody, they’re going to think of you.
The biggest part of business building is the relationship side and adding value. If I know that you host a conference every year, I’m going to help you promote that thing. I’m going to help you get people to your conference. If I know that you provide coaching services and when I run across somebody who needs what you have, I’m going to refer them to you. Having the farmer mentality, harvesting the good fields, and repeating that process is the most effective way to grow a business.
Podcast Town seems like it’s thriving. You’ve got a nice community of coaching. What are some of the most common questions you get in your groups? What do you talk about the most? What are you always repeating?The biggest part of business building is the relationship side. Click To Tweet
What do I talk about on my podcast? Where do I start? How long should it be?
That’s probably the number one question that I get. At every event, there will be somebody who will ask that.
How do I make money from my podcast? How many downloads are good amount of downloads? I get the equipment question a lot. What mic do I need? How do I get guests for my show? I could go on and on but those are some of the main ones that I get a lot.
I want to mention one more thing about guests. You have a mix between clients and what I’m assuming are prospective clients that you’re talking about on your show. Do you find that there’s a certain ratio that’s good? Having only prospective or having only existing clients would be not a great model for anyone.
It’s loose. Sometimes it’s a 2 to 1. Sometimes it’s 3 to 1. Three parts non-prospective to one prospect. It’s one of those things that I allowed to be organic. I have the criteria for each. I’m looking for X, Y, and Z in terms of prospective clients. For the regular guests, I’m looking for 1, 2, and 3. I let it happen organically. My team knows who I’m looking for and so they’ll present them and then I would select from that list. I try to keep about a 2 to 1 ratio between those. To your point, it’s not always a prospective client or always a person that’s a podcaster that may be contemporary if you will and doing something similar to what I’m doing.
That’s a good choice. Let’s talk bingeability. This is The Binge Factor. When did you realize your first show was getting binged on?
When somebody told me.
This is what I keep hearing again and again. Somebody finally reached out to you and said, “I’ve been listening to your show.”
They’ll bring up something that I said. We do trivia on the show and then we do two things like that. They’ll bring up one of the things. They’re like, “Elzie, you missed 2 out of 3 episodes.” I’m like, “I don’t even know that I did that.”
You’re like, “You need to brush up on your trivia.” They’re rubbing your back, which shows you that they had fun. That’s a good thing. Do you advise your clients? Do you have any advice for creating a bingeable show?
This is going to sound 30,000 feet but it cuts to the heart of what makes people listen to anything, whether you’re talking about a podcast, a TV show, a basketball game. It’s connectability. When people connect and whatever you’re doing resonates, they want more of it. It can be a blog post. If it connects and people can relate to it and it resonates, they’ll read more of them. With your podcast, I keep saying authenticity but it needs to be authentically you. I can’t do a show that’s somebody else’s and expect it to have the same result. It has to be Elzie. It has to be fun and goofy. That connection is what makes it binge-worthy.
This is such an interesting thing because people ask me and I’m like, “After 100 episodes, have I not repeated myself over The Binge Factor?” There are themes that go on but it’s unique for every single show. There have been shows that I’ve identified that didn’t have a binge factor but I didn’t invite them on. They didn’t make the cut to even get here to talk about. You made the cut because you got a bingeable show. That works in my favor, at least I don’t have to turn somebody down and tell them, “I’m sorry. Your show is not good enough.” I don’t have to do that on air. There are things but every single one is unique and different. There’s that personality twist factor that comes in place. What do you think your binge factor is?
I would have to go back to fun. When you listen to Throwdown, you’re like, “This dude is having a blast.” The way we break things up so it’s not all serious, “How do I grow my podcast? How do I get better as a podcaster? How do I make money?” That’s sprinkled in there. It’s the combination of fun and you’re getting the tips that will help you grow your show. If you listen to a handful of shows, you’re going to walk away with tips on how to grow your show. You’re going to become a better podcaster because of it.
I agree with you. This is your binge factor. Your binge factor is what I call substantive fun. It’s got lots of deep, great substance in it but the fun is interjected. Elzie, this is where you are fantastic at it. Your craft of knowing when to bring in a sound effect or bring in a little bit or do something reinforces the substance portion with the fun at the right moment. That is a true craft and not everybody could do that. They sometimes get too programmatic about it. You’ve seen them and they’re like, “Now it’s time for this segment.” The fun is forced but it’s not with you. Your fun reinforces that substituent message that you’re trying to get across.
Thank you. That means a lot coming from you.
You’re welcome. You get to talk to a lot of podcasters that have already been doing shows and doing things. Launching shows is daunting. We’ve got a lot of readers out there who have not pulled the trigger yet. They have not started their show. What advice do you have for them to get started? They might listen to your show and think, “I can’t pull that off.” It might hold them back. What advice do you have for them?
I made this declaration as Mayor. I used to say five years but seeing the growth of the industry and where we are, I’m going to say that in three years, if you are a business owner, you will be in the podcast space. You will be either hosting a show, guesting on a show, or sponsoring/advertising on the show. If you’re not doing one of those three things in three years, you are behind.
Some people are already behind.When people connect and whatever you’re doing resonates, they want more of it. Click To Tweet
I’ll make that proclamation. The biggest piece of advice in terms of mindset is understanding that you don’t have to have a top ten Apple Podcasts show for it to be successful. A lot of times, that holds people back because they look at it and say, “I’ll never be Joe Rogan.” The first thing is setting proper expectations. From a business perspective, understanding that this is a relationship builder. It’s a cultivator, connector, and communicative platform that informs the other metrics that you put in place. Outside of that, hire a team that does it all the time because that’s going to save you time and money. It’s going to be more efficient than if you go to YouTube University.
Get some old outdated advice, which happens.
You don’t have to use us. My recommendation is that you use a team. It’s what they do. They know all the tips, tricks, and nuances of how to launch a show the right way.
They keep you from making those rookie errors.
Thirdly, be patient. It is a long-tail strategy. It’s not like, “We released our podcast yesterday and now 50 clients called us.” Maybe that happens but most likely, it won’t. All of my advice is around mindset. Understanding that having a proper strategy and a mindset and making sure that you’re having you have metrics, which is why you want to have somebody good at the launch process to help. They’ll be able to help align your messaging with your metrics, your social strategy, your overall marketing strategy, and all this stuff. As a newbie, it can be overwhelming to think about not only the production side but now there’s the marketing. There’s the managing, the day-to-day, and all the stuff that comes along with managing a professional podcast. Have a great strategy, understand what your goals are, and hire a professional.
Great tips and advice. For those out there who already have a show, what advice can you give them? What things do you tweak immediately when you get a client that you say, “This is going to make it effective.” What are some of those effective changes that people can make to their show as an existing podcaster?
Usually, it happens around year one where they settle in and they’re like, “We’re getting some success. We’re getting some clients. We’re getting some brand recognition. This thing is something we want to include in our long-term strategy.” They still don’t have the things like, “What are our top three metrics? How do we measure that this thing is working? What’s our social strategy? How do we know that that’s working? How do we know that our engagement is increasing? How do we know that people are responding to our emails? Do we have an email list?” All of the marketing things behind the show.
I’m finding a lot of people who are about the one-year march need to fine-tune those strategies and then focus on their message, their target, and being intentional about building one listener at a time and designing that customer journey. What happens when they first listen? What do we want them to do? Do we want them to follow us on social? Do we have a lead gen PDF that we want to give them? Growing out that sales funnel and building that ecosystem so that we can farm those listeners.
You have such a good farming analogy throughout this whole show. I love the metaphor. You’re working on that. Podcast Town needs to have growth. You got to have some food. You got to have some sustenance coming in. That makes a lot of sense. Elzie, Podcast Town Throwdown is a great show, Enterprise NOW! is as well. I look forward to listening and catching up with it as you make a revamp to it in the near future. What are your plans for revamp?
There’ll be more production and more fun. When I started Enterprise NOW!, it was more of a serious show. We focus a lot on mindset and the underlying motivations and intentions behind the business. The revamp will be not necessarily similar to Throwdown but it’ll be more fun and it’ll be more open to exploring the nuts and bolts of the business. Before, I wanted to get to know the person behind the business and that’ll still be the case.
In the new iteration, we want to talk nuts and bolts. We want to talk about when you’re creating your marketing strategy for a new vertical, what does that look like? How do you know when to shut down a division of a company? How do you know when it’s time to launch a new podcast for your business? Those types of things. Combining the mindset and the human behind the business to the nuts and bolts in business and how to be successful.
That should put in that now piece for you. It will reinforce that this is something I can do now to change something. That’s a great idea and that’s going to serve you well. I look forward to hearing that. Elzie, thank you for coming on and sharing with us. I look forward to how Podcast Town grows. I look forward to seeing what comes next for you.
Thank you for having me. It was a blast.
I love it when someone has some good background and tips. Elzie has the benefit of having a full coaching program, a studio that he rents out that he asks people to come into, and has clients come through helping them with pre-production, post-production, the whole gamut of everything. Because he does that, he has a better perspective on those universal things. That’s why I asked him some different questions than I normally ask podcasters on the show. I wasn’t asking him specifically about his show. I was asking him about the advice that he gives out most commonly and that’s because these things are going to be common to you as well. These are the things that come up again and again, no matter whose show we’re talking about, no matter where we’re going with it.
My favorite part of what he said there was that he truly believes that within three years, we are all either going to be hosting, guesting, or advertising on podcasts. That is going to be so ubiquitous. It is going to be everywhere and every business needs to have some stake in that. Why not join early? Why not jump in? It is about time you stop reading The Binge Factor and instead become a show host who can be on The Binge Factor. Take Elzie’s advice, jump in, start your show, and get through there. Get a team to help, it doesn’t matter who. It doesn’t matter if you decide to come and work with us at Podetize, work with Elzie at Podcast Town. Get someone in to work with you. If it’s what’s holding you back, let’s eliminate that right now.
I hope you’ll be inspired and have much more fun on your shows to get going. Take it seriously by putting a substance in it but not take it so seriously that you don’t have fun because otherwise, you’re not going to keep podcasting. You’re not going to go from one show like Enterprise NOW! and move into Podcast Town Throwdown. You’re not going to find your path like Elzie Flenard did. I hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you’re inspired to come on my show or try and go on Podcast Town Throwdown, go on Elzie’s show. Get going with your podcast. Get it moving. Get yourself up to that point where you’ve built in that binge factor. You built in all those special features that are making your podcast help you grow your business, your message, your mission, and your perspective in the world. Get that voice of yours out there.
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